Middle class people born to boomers may not feel the same. Zero financial aid means student loans, then expensive housing and childcare, being taxed to death. cost of living increasing etc. many of my immigrant friends
attended school for free and took their time to get the right majors. We are doing well, but not as well as our parents did!
+1 also stagnant wages and wage disparity , which has especially hit millennials who just entered the job market during the last recession and are now in the middle of another right when their highest earning years are supposed to start. Average CEO pay has risen 980% since 1978. The average workers wages has risen just 12% in the same time. https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/
(OP). I grew up in America and faced many of the same issues. DH and I went to state schools, selecting the program based on cost to avoid loans as much as possible. We had to purchase our apartment on our own. We live far from parents and have to pay childcare on our own. FWIW, we entered the job market during the 2008 downturn.
Not just men, and not only at 50. Most people who lose a full time, full benefits professional job at any age from 45 up, never again manage to get an equivalent position. Trying to have our age discrimination laws enforced is a joke. Sad but true.
Depending on where you’re from, it can only get better. Or it can get much worse upon moving to the US. For me it was mostly the same but maybe I would have done better in my own country. The worst let down is my husband. Could have done much better at home.
Are we talking about the bootstraps American dream, or the American dream that acknowledges the help and support we have received along the way to success?
I see it as the ability to change social stations and economic status. I think that in most real life cases it is difficult to suss out the impetus or factors which allowed for the change.
I’ve read studies that say it’s quite rare to move out of your ’class” so to speak. the exception being poor immigrants bc they have commuting and govt support
@Anonymous (OP) I'm not sure if you could say that I moved out of my "class" in that we were and still are middle class (just lower versus upper).
I'm giving the following information to give more context to my situation. There was a time where both DH's family and my family had one parent making minimum wage (back when it was around $4 an hour) and our moms apprenticed for free. My family never received government support, and DH's family was on food stamps for less than 4 months. We shopped mostly at thrift stores. But eventually, DH and I were able to go to Ivy graduate schools and now have enough money that we could buy our parent's home in cash. To me, that is the American Dream.
No. We can't afford to buy property in the neighborhood I grew up in. I spent my 20's paying off school loans and started saving for retirement in my 30's, but I'll never have enough to stop working. We can pay the bills and buy anything we want from Amazon. In normal times, we get to take a 1-week summer vacation in the Caribbean. That's it. I'm not doing as well as my parents when they were my age. They had a house, 2 cars, and took multiple extravagant vacations in far-flung places on one salary. They capped it off with an early retirement on a generous pension. Then they voted for Trump, because FU that's why. (I'm just a little bitter)
@ AnonymousSame and I’m a little bitter. My parents have a pension, didn’t pay for my education etc. we have to save for our retirement and pay an insane amount for child care, education, extra curricula, and college. Our generation has it much much harder. I have many immigrant friends with FREEEEEE child care, can you imagine ?
OP attended IVY, are you a POC/ minority? did you have financial aid to pay for it? That is something middle class Americans don’t have. You are now middle clasa and be prepared to pay through the nose for it !
We attended IVY for graduate schools. For undergraduate, we both did in state. I worked through school and paid my own expenses other than tuition. The entire bill came to $10k, which I paid off in a couple years, skipping a fancy wedding to do so. I'm about to finish paying off paying grad school loans this year. Because DH was in a PhD program he received a stipend for his school.
I find it interesting that the comments here split between "OP must have privilege (with connotations of white privilege)" to "OP must be POC to have received any help at all".
@Anonymous I agree. Nothing like the entitlement of White people who grew up UMC or rich. I am a first generation immigrant like OP. We never received government aid, and my parents never had family support because their families were back in Asia. I took out loans for college and loans for grad school, and did not have support for housing, childcare or anything else (like the VAST majority of people, only in NYC do people think they have an entitlement to a downpayment and free childcare). And yes, I do better than my parents. I do acknowledge that there is a fair amount of privilege involved, including the fact that my parents were always very focused on education which is a major privilege that many people don't have. Also, although I am a POC, I'm not a POC that is dealing with a history of segregation and legacy of slavery in this country and that makes a big difference. Finally, of course, there is luck in all our circumstances. But I find it so obnoxious when White people tell me that I must have had some "advantage" that they didn't have.
Grew up middle class - white Jewish girl - my parents were not college educated, an outlier for jews, even then. We struggled growing up - I have worked Since I was 14 I paid for my own car insurance and car in high school. my parents paid for my state achool education and I graduated with honors and put myself through law school. I don’t lead an extravagant life compared to my peers, but my loans are paid off, my house Is paid off, we have a seven figure retirement Fund, so
yes I would say im better off by far, but I have worked my ass off for it!!!! So if that’s the dream, then yes lol.
My parents moved here from India in the late 70s. I grew up in a small town in flyover. My parents sacrificed everything for me and my education and I am very successful in my field (went to Ivy+ undergrad on financial aid, did a PhD, etc.). I feel bad though because I think while my parents lived more or less comfortable lives they really didn’t get to have any fun. But the life I have now was their American Dream and I guess they are living it vicariously through me.
The timing of your post is so strange bc literally a minute before I read it, I was thinking that I am really nothing more than a vessel for money to pass through so my kids have a better life. While I am not nearly like your parents, I am sacrifice much to pay for education and everything else. And the conclusion is that I would do it again and again so that my kids can have the kind of life I wish I had. I’m sure your parents agree, that’s more fun than anything!!! Kudos to them!
Imo, American Dreams is still true for those who get help/have a leg up at some point, on top of working hard (inheritance/immigrants...). For the vast majority who are neither privileged or helped in any way, it is not. Hard work will give you some basics, but save for good fortune, it's hard to top your own parents (if they were as hard working as you are)
Middle class people born to boomers may not feel the same. Zero financial aid means student loans, then expensive housing and childcare, being taxed to death. cost of living increasing etc. many of my immigrant friends
attended school for free and took their time to get the right majors. We are doing well, but not as well as our parents did!
+1 also stagnant wages and wage disparity , which has especially hit millennials who just entered the job market during the last recession and are now in the middle of another right when their highest earning years are supposed to start. Average CEO pay has risen 980% since 1978. The average workers wages has risen just 12% in the same time. https://www.epi.org/publication/ceo-compensation-2018/
(OP). I grew up in America and faced many of the same issues. DH and I went to state schools, selecting the program based on cost to avoid loans as much as possible. We had to purchase our apartment on our own. We live far from parents and have to pay childcare on our own. FWIW, we entered the job market during the 2008 downturn.
@Anonymous OMG, most people buy their homes on their own. Former UB is a very eclectic group. most people do not get down payments from their parents.
I see a ton of men at 50 losing their high paying job for good. The dream ends early
Not just men, and not only at 50. Most people who lose a full time, full benefits professional job at any age from 45 up, never again manage to get an equivalent position. Trying to have our age discrimination laws enforced is a joke. Sad but true.
Depending on where you’re from, it can only get better. Or it can get much worse upon moving to the US. For me it was mostly the same but maybe I would have done better in my own country. The worst let down is my husband. Could have done much better at home.
+1
Are we talking about the bootstraps American dream, or the American dream that acknowledges the help and support we have received along the way to success?
I see it as the ability to change social stations and economic status. I think that in most real life cases it is difficult to suss out the impetus or factors which allowed for the change.
I’ve read studies that say it’s quite rare to move out of your ’class” so to speak. the exception being poor immigrants bc they have commuting and govt support
@Anonymous (OP) I'm not sure if you could say that I moved out of my "class" in that we were and still are middle class (just lower versus upper). I'm giving the following information to give more context to my situation. There was a time where both DH's family and my family had one parent making minimum wage (back when it was around $4 an hour) and our moms apprenticed for free. My family never received government support, and DH's family was on food stamps for less than 4 months. We shopped mostly at thrift stores. But eventually, DH and I were able to go to Ivy graduate schools and now have enough money that we could buy our parent's home in cash. To me, that is the American Dream.
No. We can't afford to buy property in the neighborhood I grew up in. I spent my 20's paying off school loans and started saving for retirement in my 30's, but I'll never have enough to stop working. We can pay the bills and buy anything we want from Amazon. In normal times, we get to take a 1-week summer vacation in the Caribbean. That's it. I'm not doing as well as my parents when they were my age. They had a house, 2 cars, and took multiple extravagant vacations in far-flung places on one salary. They capped it off with an early retirement on a generous pension. Then they voted for Trump, because FU that's why. (I'm just a little bitter)
@ AnonymousSame and I’m a little bitter. My parents have a pension, didn’t pay for my education etc. we have to save for our retirement and pay an insane amount for child care, education, extra curricula, and college. Our generation has it much much harder. I have many immigrant friends with FREEEEEE child care, can you imagine ?
Voting for socialism won't make you richer
OP attended IVY, are you a POC/ minority? did you have financial aid to pay for it? That is something middle class Americans don’t have. You are now middle clasa and be prepared to pay through the nose for it !
We attended IVY for graduate schools. For undergraduate, we both did in state. I worked through school and paid my own expenses other than tuition. The entire bill came to $10k, which I paid off in a couple years, skipping a fancy wedding to do so. I'm about to finish paying off paying grad school loans this year. Because DH was in a PhD program he received a stipend for his school.
I find it interesting that the comments here split between "OP must have privilege (with connotations of white privilege)" to "OP must be POC to have received any help at all".
@Anonymous I agree. Nothing like the entitlement of White people who grew up UMC or rich. I am a first generation immigrant like OP. We never received government aid, and my parents never had family support because their families were back in Asia. I took out loans for college and loans for grad school, and did not have support for housing, childcare or anything else (like the VAST majority of people, only in NYC do people think they have an entitlement to a downpayment and free childcare). And yes, I do better than my parents. I do acknowledge that there is a fair amount of privilege involved, including the fact that my parents were always very focused on education which is a major privilege that many people don't have. Also, although I am a POC, I'm not a POC that is dealing with a history of segregation and legacy of slavery in this country and that makes a big difference. Finally, of course, there is luck in all our circumstances. But I find it so obnoxious when White people tell me that I must have had some "advantage" that they didn't have.
Grew up middle class - white Jewish girl - my parents were not college educated, an outlier for jews, even then. We struggled growing up - I have worked Since I was 14 I paid for my own car insurance and car in high school. my parents paid for my state achool education and I graduated with honors and put myself through law school. I don’t lead an extravagant life compared to my peers, but my loans are paid off, my house Is paid off, we have a seven figure retirement Fund, so
yes I would say im better off by far, but I have worked my ass off for it!!!! So if that’s the dream, then yes lol.
My parents moved here from India in the late 70s. I grew up in a small town in flyover. My parents sacrificed everything for me and my education and I am very successful in my field (went to Ivy+ undergrad on financial aid, did a PhD, etc.). I feel bad though because I think while my parents lived more or less comfortable lives they really didn’t get to have any fun. But the life I have now was their American Dream and I guess they are living it vicariously through me.
The timing of your post is so strange bc literally a minute before I read it, I was thinking that I am really nothing more than a vessel for money to pass through so my kids have a better life. While I am not nearly like your parents, I am sacrifice much to pay for education and everything else. And the conclusion is that I would do it again and again so that my kids can have the kind of life I wish I had. I’m sure your parents agree, that’s more fun than anything!!! Kudos to them!
Imo, American Dreams is still true for those who get help/have a leg up at some point, on top of working hard (inheritance/immigrants...). For the vast majority who are neither privileged or helped in any way, it is not. Hard work will give you some basics, but save for good fortune, it's hard to top your own parents (if they were as hard working as you are)