Has anyone followed to the end? Last episode is now available. It focuses on the integration model adopted in D15, basically a lottery for MS admissions. It ends with the intriguing thought that such initiatives are brought forward and supported by white parents, only when the existing situation has become too competitive, difficult or otherwise not preferable to themselves.
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I listened to the whole series and thought it was interesting. I think she's basically right. Education is especially difficult because even if you agree in the principle of integration and a solid education for every child, if that isn't the reality of the system--and currently it isn't--few people are willing to sacrifice their own kid just to make a moral point. I include myself in this; DC went to private PK-12. If parents have the option, they vote with their feet to ensure their kids get the education the parents want them to have. I think the intense competition for private (and the cost), combined with the inability to ensure a solid outcome with public, has made the status quo both challenging and unpredictable. People are willing to trade choice (since they may not get their top choice anyway) for better overall options. Even if those options aren't as good as their top choice would have been, the bottom isn't as low.
@ Anonymous I listened to all the episodes too, and I agree with that point as well - the forces aligned in D15 to create the desire for a systemic change. I also think it will be hard to replicate the D15 model elsewhere. One problem is the insane make-up of the districts - at least in Manahattan, they're completely unequal - District 2 is overall white and wealthy, Districts 4 & 5 almost completely poor & POC. Ergo, district-wide lotteries won't change all that much.
I liked the point she made about how white parents aren't used to considering the impact of our choices on a demographic level. We all want to make the best individual choices for our individual kids, because of course we do--but because of the way the system caters to us, when we do that as a group, the result is resources being hoarded and kept away from children of color.
I sincerely doubt that non-white parents are "used to considering the impact of [their] choices on a demographic level" either. If they held the power (after the inauguration say?) they would make the exact, same self-serving choices.
@Anonymous Of course. People are innately self interested. But the fact is that they don't have that power, because the system was set up and maintained to serve white parents. That's not a reason for white parents to feel good about it, though.
As for my point about demographics, if you listen to the episode it explains it much better than I do, and it is a totally valid point.
I would love a follow-up episode about D15 middle schools during the Diversity Plan. My DD was part of the first Diversity Plan class. Even attending SLT meetings and being very involved in the school it's so hard to see if it's actually having any impact on achievement. There were no state tests last year and probably won't be this year. Kids lives are all in disarray b/c of pandemic. It will be really hard to know if it's had any effect.
Do you agree with her suggestion with regards to the motivation of the D15 parents?
@AnonymousQ Good question. I think the motivation of the moms she interviewed were pretty clear--they were inspired to do something about the problem b/c it affected their own kids. But I really empathize with that group of parents (some of whom I know personally) who were really trying to investigate the issue of whether or not diverse families wanted an integration plan. As a white middle class parent, I personally find it really hard to engender meaningful discussions about diversity within a school community that actually move things forward in a way that make things more equal. I was still left wondering what to do. I thought the line about being an "activist instead of a customer" was a good one, but I'm also not quite sure what to do with that. I'd rather amplify the voices of black people but literally no black people have EVER run for PTA or SLT in either of my kids schools (and middle school is quite diverse due to the plan). A few Latina women have run, but everyone involved in parent leadership (and even the diversity discussion group) seem like middle and upper middle class people.
@BKmom I think the motivation of the moms she interviewed were pretty clear--they were inspired to do something about the problem b/c it affected their own kids.
It's worth noting that the mom who is portrayed as the hero of the D15 movement - Miriam something - immediately snatched up waitlist seats for her own children in a coveted middle school when she was offered them, and wasn't personally affected by the new system she had a hand in creating.
I'm sure it was easy for her to pound the table for change and say "I WOULD have been happy with a lottery system"...but again, it wasn't actually affecting her kids.
I was interested in the thread running through a number of episodes about how white vs POC parents view diversity--that Black and Hispanic parents aren't really invested in diversity (as in exposure to kids of other races) as an end in itself. They just want their kids to have access to the same quality of education.
Yes!
She scratches the surface there, but even she has no answer - how do you make ALL schools good, without necessarily diversifying them (since that's impossible in NYC)? And what to do with elementary schools? By the time MS arrives, some kids are way behind their peers. so they can try to remove screens in MS and HS, but the problems will persist if we do not solve ES education.
While I believe in a good education for every child, I voted with my feet. DC (now in college) attended private PK-12. We don't live in NYC, but we never considered our local public. Ultimately we thought about our child and our family--not larger societal goals--when it come to education. Even knowing what I know about inequality, the truth is that I would make the same decision if I had to do it over. Parents will act in their kids' best interests, so unless and until public schools are reliably good, this will be a difficult problem to solve.
As a D15 parent with a child in that first Diversity class and in BHS too, I have a lot of thoughts. I agree with so much of what she has to say, about white middle class parents having influence and making choices to benefit their kids etc.
On D15 Diversity Plan - more than 50% of parents opposed the plan, but they pushed it through anyway. It's hard to say if there is any meaningful impact. I know a lot of families who left and some who chose private, when they would not have done so before. BASIS alone added a full class to accommodate more incoming 6th graders and a few smaller private schools popped up. So there is certainly some outflow from the public system as a result.
Such a plan will be hard to replicate. Many of the D15 schools had become desirable or acceptable, so it was not a really rough transition. Also, the demographics are easy to mix in diverse schools. But the city has 15% white kids in public school, 72% free lunch. How do you fix and make such a system diverse and equitable?
I read an article that if magically the 15% white kids were spread out the city, you would have maybe 4 kids per class. Count the Asian kids that Carranza seems to ignore or hate depending on the day, and that gives you another 15% to spread around. Its all playing statistics to make things appear a certain way - no real change. Bottom line is what is to be done to improve education for our neediest students, down to root cause? The Renewal schools concept was good, but it failed with a high $ cost.
Totally makes sense. and the ones usually pushing for it the loudest are those w/ kids who are already in screened, past the hurdles. Bunch of hypocrites.
@ Anonymous So true! The head of the parent council in my district, who was all for "diversity" sent her own kid to the most coveted district G&T program, made up of almost all white kids. It was shocking that no one ever called her out on this.
ITA. Someone who contributed to this podcast and whose spouse is very high up in the said D15 district and strong advocate of the Diversity plan, chose to send their kids to the two of the top choices in the district, traditionally coveted by the Nice white parents. So while they were trying to convince other parents that all the schools would be OK and we should do it for the greater good, they couldn't be bothered to send their own kids to schools which need more support.
@Anon Further proof, as it one needed it, that even the do-good-iest, liberal-est parents will NOT sacrifice their own kids' education for moral principle. I think we can nibble at the edges of integration in small pockets where the interests of White Parents and POC happen to coincide (like D15 middle schools), but solving the school segregation problem city-wide may be impossible.
@anonymous Solving segregation--as in having all schools have a mix of black, white and LatinX kids--may not be possible, but solving the disparity in school quality absolutely is. And according to the podcast, that is the most pressing issue for BIPOC parents in NYC. They don't care so much whether their kids are in school with little white Susie; but they want (and deserve) their kids' school to have quality facilities and resources and teachers like Susie's school.