I have a divorced friend who is seeing a married man and is actively pressuring him to leave his wife. I think this is morally and ethically wrong, but I'm trying to avoid being openly judgmental. I've known this woman for years and she's (overall) a good and a loyal friend, but she has a dramatic, needy quality about her. She's someone who gives a lot but expects a lot in return from her friends. What does it mean to be "supportive" in a case like this? I can't help but sympathize with the wife (who I don't know at all). Thoughts?
I would probably distance myself from her. At least we have covid so it’s the perfect excuse not to have dinner or drinks with her.
Maybe by the time covid is over, the affair will have run its course.
She is single, he is not. I would never get involved in moralizing on behalf of others. She's my friend, and his marital situation is not my business in the least.
You don't have to moralize on behalf of others. You can just take a moral stand for yourself in terms of what kinds of people you'll be friends with, and what kind you won't.
@AnonymousThat's the same thing in my book. I make moral decisions for myself in my own life. It's not my place to do so for others in their personal lives.
@anonymous Right. Make a moral decision in your own life: what kinds of friends do you want. If you don't want friends who cheat, don't have them. If you don't want friends who don't share your moral code, don't have them.
This aside, it sounds like an uncomfortable friendship about which you have reservations. You mention she has expectations and neediness you don't like. I think it is within your rights to distance , and I would guess she needs some sort of therapeutic intervention that you can't provide anyway.
OP. I mentioned the neediness and the high expectations to provide a little context. I don't mind being there for her and I want to be a good friend, but she's hard to draw boundaries with. She has an expectation of "I back you up 100%, you back me up 100%." But in this case, I don't support what she's doing, so if I indicate that I'm not supportive, she'll see it as a deficit in terms of our friendship and my loyalty. Like I said, I think she's a good person, so I can't decide if I'm being judgmental and I should write this off as a low point for her or if it's a more serious character flaw.
Who cares how she sees it. It’s not about her. It’s about you. She doesn’t draw the boundaries — you do. And it’s not hard: you know I love you dearly, and I want you to be happy, but this I cannot support. Call me when he’s actually left his wife, left you, or you’ve left him. But I just can’t participate in this in good faith, even as a bystander. It’s just too destructive. And then don’t speak to her again until the scales have fallen from her eyes. I have actually been in this situation, and just said outright: it’s him or me. You can’t have both and I can’t / won’t support that. As much as I loved her, it wasn’t even hard. I don’t play that even for 2 seconds. No way. She came to her senses and broke it off, she learned something about me, I learned something about her, we got over it and we remain friends. Be true to yourself.
@Anonymous OP. Thank you. This is great advice.
Gross. I would never speak to her again, or at least until she stopped the destructive behavior: Later babes. Call me when you get your act together.
I did have a friend who told me details about her affair (spoiler - she made it unclear/ basically to avoid facing reality - that he was in fact still married). We aren't friends anymore. I resented her expecting me to listen to this. years later I do realize I was being judgmental, but I don't know that I wouldn't have still walked away.
Why is it not ok to be judgmental about the type of person with whom you want to associate / be friends? There is inherently some judgment in there.
@Anonymous ITA. I am sure you draw the line somewhere, so if you clearly do not approve of this, you do not have to pretend. You also don't sound like the closest of friends, she exercised very poor judgement in telling you about this affair.
@Anon TBH we were at that time very close friends, in our mid-20's. She would call me up when I was at work to talk about this guy while she was downloading reports at work. When I finally met him he was totally drunk. He had a lover's den in the City near her apartment and clearly was keeping something out of her purview. Older man, younger woman type of thing - she liked his money and perceived status (which I really don't think he had honestly), Around this time I met my now DH and we lost touch. DH thinks I should have stayed friends with her - like OP describes, she was a good person, a good friend, extremely bright, I really liked and respected her. But our lives were going in 2 different directions and her behavior - not so much that I was pretty sure it was an affair, but that she used me as a sounding board - was so uncomfortable for me. I wish her well and I hope she found both partners and friends who value all she has to offer.
OP. I agree that I wish she never told me. I want her to be happy and I know she’s lonely, but I still think it’s wrong on her part (not to mention his). She keeps telling me the various ways that he’s expressing his live and devotion and his intention to be with her, and I just find myself rolling my eyes (literally or figuratively). My view is that if he were that miserable, he’d have left his wife already. But what do I know. I guess I cant help but imagine how I would feel if I were the wife and it makes me think less if my friend. :(
I would tell her I wish she never told me because that puts me in a very difficult position. And ask her to stop talking about this with me. Her reaction will tell you all you need to know. I've seen friends' relationship change, some cheat, get divorced, get reconciled but very, very rarely does anyone have an open relationship or a spouse who truly does not care. Whatever excuses he gives her or she makes up, there is a spouse bound to be hurt by all this.
ok so - she showed you she isn't considering your discomfort or the wife's. So now you know. it seems fairly logical to me that if I was doing something like this I wouldn't put my friends in the position of being in on it. Some things - especially really bad decisions - are better kept private.
She’s a pig who doesn’t respect marriage, because hers failed. she is toxic and looking for drama. I would cut her off for now. She may go after your DH too
Ouch.
This is all very harsh. The whole other woman on here incites so much hate. If your her friend talk to her about her choices and lend support.