For those of you who are NYC for life, do you admit that your choice to stay in the city is selfish or do you actually think the city is better than the suburbs for your children? Moving out of the city sucks. NYC is adult Disney World. But outside is 1000% better for kids.
I hate the suburbs with passion and no, I don't think they are 1000% better for kids. Other than sports, what is the advantage? If you manage to avoid the bottom schools in the city, you may actually end up with an independent kid with unique cultural and social experiences.
I’ll give you the unique cultural experiences but the social experiences leave something to be desired. Going to the Met (museum and opera), MoMA, Natoral History - all great. Barclays, Knickerbocker, Hamptons, playdates all over the city as social experiences - not so much. Our public playgrounds and libraries were unusable. You never knew whether you were going to get a good nights sleep it was so damn loud. Smell of pot everywhere. Human feces (regularly on the unusable playground). On top of all of that, now it doesn’t feel safe.
Omg where did you live?!
Social experiences that push you out of your comfort zone are actually valuable.
Since when are playgrounds unusable? My kids have been in the park with our nanny all summer. Also have noise proof windows. Where do you live in nyc?
Soho. Referring specifically to the playground on Spring and Mulberry. It was redone recently and there was an immediate problem with people photographing the children as well.
Np. Give me rural or city. Suburbs are soulless.
+1
Whoa. I would strongly disagree with every word of your post. Insufferable.
The playground comment is so weird. Last week we visited about 6 separate playgrounds in walking/scootering distance, and they are all fantastic and imaginative. The kids were able to play there for hours. My kids have favorite spots at the MET and can talk about art even though they're all under 8. But, at the end of the day, I like living in the City because, to me, (and I know others are different), City life pushes us towards experiences over the accumulation of things. Because our apartment is small, we can't easily accumulate stuff, and we are pushed out. Pre-COVID, we spend most of our day outside our apartment, and I love that. There is always something to easily explore just walking outside, I don't need to make a special trip. When I was in the suburbs this summer I felt everything was a special effort to go see and do.
I’m the “urban or rural, just not suburbs” commenter from above. I totally agree with you. And I love rural as well because we can literally hike/mountain bike/XC ski right out our back door.
My kids are older and neither has ever expressed unhappiness about growing up here. my college kid misses the energy of the city. My high schooler might be OK in the country, but not the burbs (that's me too).. I think part of it is they do not like car culture or needing to drive everywhere. City kids can be pretty independent, pretty early on.
I don't agree with the idea that our goal as parents is to make our kid's life comfortable or easy. OP probably thinks that forcing kids to share a room somehow makes them suffer. Yes, my kids sometimes moan about having to walk somewhere, but that's good for them. (And, to be fair, they also complain when we have to drive somewhere).
Yes! Assuming I can provide my children with a reasonable level of education and comfort, I get to choose where *I* want to live. They are welcome to make different choices when they are independent adults.
Like everyone, I have a love/hate relationship with NYC, but it's my natural habitat and I would not do well in the suburbs. I hate driving and car maintenance, I'm not interested in mowing a lawn or raking leaves, and I like diversity and culture. I think living here is teaching my kids to be resilient and compassionate. As the other poster said, it's not always comfortable, but my kids are worldly and savvy and will be more independent and resourceful as young adults than their suburban counterparts..
Also, the comment that "libraries are unusable"? Where does OP live?
yeah. my local branch is across the street from public housing (the thing that scared UB the most) and when my kids were little we went every week. very usable.
You must live near us - Lincoln Center. Great Library.
I find the "adult Disney world" comment to be so off-base and downright offensive. I was born here. I don't live here bc of shiny restaurants or fancy salons or whatever. I don't know anyone who does.
Perhaps the use of Disney world as a comparison is a "tell."
Omg this. So happy you wrote this. I was born here too. I live here because this is where I’m from and where my family lives and has lived for generations. For many people nyc isn’t a choice it’s just home. I find a lot of these debates really odd.
I am a native NYer, my DC loves NYC and hates organized sports, being outdoors, and having to be in a car all the time, so even if I were inclined to only do what DC wants, which I'm not, I still would never move to a suburb. And the playgrounds in NYC are most definitely not "unusable," they are pretty great actually, we spent endless hours there when DC was younger.
I don't mind either one, but the idea that the country is more socially open is very strange. People outside the city have a/c and internet and social circles too. Also the persistent myth of the country as safe for ms/hs kids. Not especially. Country teenagers drive drunk; city teenagers less so. Where are they driving drunk from? Parties at isolated private homes or on open land. Also not super safe. And on and on.
Here's the thing; the burbs are only a thing if there is city work. Why would anyone live in the suburbs if people don't HAVE to work in a city office? If you didn't have to work in a city office, surely you'd live in like - Jackson hole Wyoming or the bahamas or asheville NC or whatever? EVEN IF you didn't have to work in a city office, you might still live in the city bc art, restaurants, architecture, bars etc. I have considered the suburbs myself but only in a world where you have to work in a city and you need more space. Right now it's possible covid has changed that fact forever so hold fire and see what's up.
I see your argument for the tristate area, but I grew up on suburbs that were too far from any city to ever commute in. The economy was not centered on a city or office-work. People were teachers, doctors, plumbers, or small business owners, etc. The kind of jobs you see in a "Busy Town" book. Houses were large and good quality for around ~$300k with strong school districts and low taxes.
So ITA. We've been working remote for years and if were to move out of NYC it would be a place similar rot what you list. I hope more people working remote can revive some small towns.
This
Interesting perspective. I actually moved out of the city for ME but NYC is terrific for kids. So many social and cultural opportunities. Playgrounds, museums, theater, enrichment programs and classes. And everywhere a chance to meet other kids and interact, make friends. So much excitement to see: kids love trains and busses and ferries. So many kid friendly restaurants. And so much much more opportunity for independence. It's adults that the city is hard on. Long commutes unless you can afford to live in the same neighborhood you work in, long working hours, cramped apartments and nowhere to store things or cook big meals or entertain grownup friends and family, everything overpriced, the stress of it all. I love living in the suburbs but it's not for the dcs.
^^^ I should add that we moved to the "suburbs" of another smaller city, not NYC or tri-state . Otherwise, it wouldn't have solved all the problems on that list.
I love the city but I have to say that raising kids in the suburbs now has been pretty amazing. We purposely picked a very walkable suburb so we can walk to the train station, restaurants, bars, library, schools, and beach. The kids start walking to school alone in third/fourth grade and meet up with friends independently around town without having to be driven. We live in a very social town but still have the privacy and space of our house and yard with a pool which has been great when we were locked down. I really think it is a pretty idyllic lifestyle for us but I also recognize that it might not suit everyone. I miss the vibrancy of the city sometimes but for now this pace and ease of daily life suits us. We will definitely try something new when the kids finish school though.
Sounds nice. Where are you that’s so walkable but you have a pool?
@Anonymous Larchmont, NY
@WestchesterAnonymous Larchmont is great but so expensive. The other walkable NYC suburb would be Montclair, NJ.
This is a stupid post that pits us against each other at a time when we should be bonding over how crappy it is trying to parent during covid. There are amazing things about the city, there are amazing things about the burbs. Probably a lot of city people WOULD live in the burbs if it didn't involve a 2 hour commute every day and if more of them were more interesting and dynamic. Probably more burbs people would live in the city if you could get even a little bit more space and the school situation didn't suck so bad. we all love our kids, we're all doing our best, it's all subjective and personal. you can only do what you can do.