I told her she wasn’t going to be allowed to bake if she only washes her dishes. We are a family and she’s to wash all the dishes in the sink once she’s done baking or she won’t bake at all. Dh agrees with me but thinks I’m being harsh and/or over dramatic. How would you handle? Tia.
Why should she be responsible for others’ decisions to let dishes accumulate? I don’t understand this. This just sets up incentives for everyone to let dishes pile up until she bakes so that it all becomes her problem. I think you’re being completely unreasonable and irrational. Set up a schedule for everyone to take turns doing dishes if it’s that much of an issue.
Ps I think it’s awesome that she cleans up after herself. I really don’t see the problem here. If she dirtied dishes and left them for someone else, you’d have a totally valid complaint. But you’re complaining that she cleans up after herself but doesn’t clean up after you. But why shouldn’t YOU be responsible for cleaning up after you? Why is that her job?
Op: no that’s not how it works. I normally make breakfast, lunch and dinner for the family. I also do the dishes afterwards. Sometimes in the evenings, I leave the dishes either for dh or for me to do the following morning (normally this). I told her if she wanted to bake, she had to wash all dishes. She baked and only washed hers. We’re not roommates. We’re a family. I don’t just make breakfast or lunch for myself. I make it for all of us. Same applies to dish washing imo.
but you guys have already made a decision to leave the dishes overnight. Why should that change because she uses and washes additional dishes? You’re net net in exactly the same position you would have been otherwise. That’s why this makes zero sense. She is not adding to your burden. You don’t have a single extra dish to do. Does she bake only for herself or do you and dh enjoy it too?
Op: no she’s baking for herself. I actually prefer that she not bake so much (but that’s another post). My problem is that I see her decision to only wash her dishes as selfish. Maybe I’m wrong? That’s why I’m asking. I just can’t imagine doing that as a kid. Now granted, my mother wouldn’t let me near her kitchen to cook/bake anything. But she sure made me wash dishes (and not just the ones that I dirtied).
If my 13 yo dd even put the dishes she used for baking in the sink, I'd drop to my knees and thank the lord.
Op: really? Wow.....do you have outside help? With my dd, I spend all day long taking dirty dishes out of her room.
SAME
One more. Mine will only clean them from the table after I specifically told her so (Tries to leave the table without clean up every single time). Then drop them in the sink and make faces when I ask her to put them in the dishwasher.
It sounds like you need to take a step back. You're making this about the dishes when it sounds like what's really going on is that you you want more participation from the family to keep things going. It's definitely more messy and more work to have everyone home full time. Personally, my first move would be to say that dishes don't sit in the sink overnight. Ever. Someone--you, DD or DH--needs to clean them before bed. Take turns, create a schedule or whatever works, but leaving them overnight just leaves one more thing for someone to do the next morning (or no one does it in the a.m. and they sit throughout the day). Then, consider what other help you need. Laundry, pet care, meal prep, vacuum or tidying up, whatever. There is nothing wrong with asking your 13 yo to do chores. If doing dishes is part of it, great. But don't leave dishes in the sink and then get mad when she doesn't do them when she wants to bake. She's cleaning up after herself, which is great, but it sounds like leaving dishes in the sink is creating a problem.
THIS. Setting up the family expectation that dirty dishes just sit in the sink until the next morning is the problem here. All of you have tacitly agreed that this is how dirty dishes are handled. I think you've got a great kid who is cleaning up after herself despite other folks dirty dishes sitting in her way! If you want her to do all the dishes, then set up a house rule that after you cook a meal, she cleans up after everyone eats. Honestly though, if your husband isn't cooking he should help clean up as well to model the good behavior for your daughter.
I agree with you, op. Completely selfish and a bad habit. When I was younger, I lived with roommates, and there were many over several years. The worst roommates in multiple ways were the ones who had “their” plate and “their” glass and refused to engage in collective living and pitch in, and the best were the ones who would share and think of others, occasionally cook for the group, do things that needed to be done without keeping score or griping. If Everyone in the household operated that way, you’d be living in a rooming house, not a family home. That said, she’s at a particularly obnoxious age, and that’s probably all this is, I was a slob at 13 and it’s not who I am today,
You're talking about creating a situation where someone is a doormat - just do it for the benefit of the group and then complain that others are not pitching in. On the flip side, others take advantage. Not how it should work, but I'm not surprised that you think it is.
@Anonymous I'm doing nothing of the sort. I actually ended up dating one of the "good" roommates and am now married to him, for decades. He is an equal partner who shares all duties (including household stuff and childcare) equally, and neither of us has to ask the other to pull their weight.
If you call that a doormat, that's just fine with me.
A short roommate story: I did often just clean up if I was already doing it, and didn't care whose mess I was cleaning. That's not to say I always did it--I definitely did my share of slacking. But when I lost my job in the dot-com crash, one of my roommates ended up lending me my share of the rent for a couple of months. When I went to pay him back, he refused, and said "thanks for all the dishes." :)
@anonymous Of course you should pick up more of the slack when you're at home all day, not paying rent, and everyone else is working. That's really not what we're talking about here.
I actually think it’s great that she takes care of her own dishes! She sounds like a delight!!!
I'm in no position -- I have a 17 year-old who wouldn't lift a finger if her life depended on it.
I agree with PP that there is a larger issue here - You need more help around the house. DD is 13 and should be pitching in more. I would drop the whole you have to do the dishes if they happen to be in the sink thing though. Yes, in theory she should just do it. She is part of the family and already doing dishes, but she is 13 and probably kind of a pill a lot of the time (most 13yo are). Also, it is too conditional. She needs more structure placed around helping out it sounds like. So I WOULD give her some daily chores. You shouldn't be doing everything for everyone at this point. Maybe it is taking out the trash. Maybe it is setting up a dishes rotation. Maybe it is doing her own laundry. Maybe it is making dinner for the family once a week.
Making her do chores isn't teaching her to be a doormat. It is teaching her life skills + the lesson that being part of a family means pitching in and helping out.
I made the doormat comment and you're taking it out of context. Of course 13 yo should do chores. The doormat point was not about whether 13 yo's should have chores, it was about roommate situations and some roommates cooking for everyone occasionally or doing dishes all the time, and "pitching in". I've lived in such situations before and it always ends up being the same people "pitching in" and the same people taking advantage. Teach her to do chores, absolutely. But also teach her personal responsibility, as everyone should be demonstrating.
Op: thank you and I completely agree with this. I will have a conversation with her about chores etc and we’ll come up with a plan. Thank you!
@Anonymous The thing about assigning chores is that people need to learn to do things without being asked. How many women are annoyed with their DHs for just "not seeing" what needs to be done around the house and in life? If kids don't learn that it's necessary to do things for others sometimes, then they never learn, and they become adults who never do. And in the end it falls on one person anyway, usually the one everyone calls 'mom,' who then has to be everyone's doormat out of necessity.
It sounds like you are angry at your DH and taking it out on DD. If you make breakfast, lunch and dinner for the family every day there is no reason that he cannot do the dishes immediately after eating. Get on him, not your daughter.
Op: I do get on him but it really really bothers me that dd thinks it’s ok to clean just her dishes but I’m going to chalk it off to her age.
@Anonymous If my husband were the one tasked with doing the dinner dishes from a meal I cooked I would leave them in the sink no matter how many things needed to be washed before I asked my child to do his work. Your frustration is mistimed and misplaced.
@Anonymous I don't even get why people need to be "tasked". Who is the all-powerful household manager who is supposed to be organizing all this? (Rhetorical question--we all know who that would be).
The way I saw your original post, OP, is that you want your DD to take some responsibility for completing a task and doing a good job. I don't see that as a gender issue--I assume you'd say the same for your DH or your sons (if not, then maybe we would disagree).
This whole post just makes me so sad for some reason. OP's dd in this example at least is a responsible person. She's being penalized for not picking up after others while OP and her DH leave dishes in the sink overnight. I'm not judging that aspect, and I get why OP is tired, but where is DH in all of this? What kind of relationship is the dd going to grow up to be in? If you don't clean up after others, there is punishment. Keep the peace by cleaning up. Nevermind that the dh has his feet up :(
But in this scenario, it doesn't sound like DD is being asked to do just the parents' dishes. She is being asked to do the family dishes. I assume she also ate the meal that the dishes were used to cook. I agree that OP should drop the "do the dishes only when you bake thing" as it it too conditional and could seem like a "penalty" to a 13yo. But I do think that DD should be part of the doing dishes rotation (regardless if she baked or not). Both DD and DH ate the dinner.
When I was 9yo, my responsibility was to do the dishes every night. When my sister turned 9, we switched off every other night. One would set the table and one would do the dishes. My Dad and Mom both did a lot of chores around the house. But as we got older, we were expected to pitch in more. My ODC is 7yo. She makes breakfast for herself and YDC every morning at 7am (waffles, cereal, yogurt, fruit, etc.). And yes, DH and I stay in bed while she does it.
@Anonymous The family plan is that OP cooks and either OP or DH do dishes, usually OP and usually the next morning. I don't have a problem with kids being asked to do family dishes, but that's not the distribution of responsibilities in this family, so it's strictly a penalty. But for the baking, the dd would not be asked or expected to do the dishes. What you're saying is that there should be a different family plan. I agree and said the same thing.
Op: no maybe I’m not being clear. Dishes aren’t left in the sink overnight all the time. and dd doesn’t bake all the time. I do ask dd to clean dishes (when she doesn’t bake) and she won’t do them. The only time she does them is when she bakes. I also ask dh to do dishes and he’ll do them occasionally. But I’m still the one that normally does them.
OP - I think part of the problem is that you are already doing too much for your DD so her not doing some dishes feels like piling on and you react strongly. You say above that you are making breakfast and lunch and dinner for the whole family. If your daughter is 13, there is no reason for that. She can make and clean up her own breakfast and lunch. So can your husband.
I have a 14 and 11 year old and for the pasts two years they have been responsible for breakfast and lunch on their own (lunch used to be just on weekends), so when quarantine started we were already in a good routine and I didn't ever have to start picking up those meals even though we are all home. Kids can assemble those meals and do all their own dishes for those.
I do cook dinner every night, and then all of us do the dishes together. If you cut down to just doing one meal a day and have all of you do the dishes right after, you will have more time for yourself, and you won't feel so pressured. And, feeding herself at age 13 is a life skill your DD should have anyway, so it's a win all the way around.
Op: you’re right and I need to get to this point. When dd has time to make lunch during the day, she asks me to make it while she’s chatting on the phone with dfs. It won’t be a problem to cut dh off from breakfast and lunch. I am going to do dinner only. And we will talk about this as a family. Thanks everyone!
@Anonymous yay! that's the spirit. everyone pitching in on everything. that's really what this was about I think - it was just the final straw on everyone leaning on you way too much. It's not right. you're a working mom, too, and they need to understand how much this hurts you to carry the entire load. Asking for help is the first important step, so this really is a great outcome :)
Op: thank you!
I am in the same boat OP so I totally get your reaction. I've been cooking a ton, thinking there is more time now, but haven't involved DCs -11 and 13, to help enough. So this morning when I thought of making French toast, I decided to instead just feed them toast and enjoy the extra 30 min of piece instead of creating more mess in the kitchen. I am also making them a chores sheet so I have very clear expectations.