Do you all think that the 48% nationally who voted for Trump really embrace his policies? Or do you think that it was due to a weak Democratic candidate? Given the turnout, I think it’s more likely the former.
Its both IMO. I think a lot of people hold their nose and vote for Trump because they like his fiscal policies, how he handles internationally, etc. even though they know he is a jerk with zero empathy. With Biden, he is not "exciting" which is probably good, we have had enough excitement the last 4 years. But behind Biden is the Dem party that is scaring people away with some of the more left positions, the loud voices like AOC, and fear of socialism & govt control in their lives. And then there is a decent # that love Trump because he speaks to the things that worry them, like he did in 2016. The media and campaign was much better than 2016 and less in a "bubble", but I guess not enough.
Just saw a times article about NYS but it resonates - "Democrats may have failed to outline a platform that appealed to moderate voters beyond a rejection of Mr. Trump, said Bruce Gyory, a Democratic strategist.
“You’ve got to be able to put a purposeful agenda that resonates with voters in the center,” he said.
I think it's about identity more than policies. They have invested in this choice. They identify with it. It would take a lot of self-insight to admit this mistake. And it's a lot about emotions. They don't necessarily expect that Trump will help their own livelihoods. But they do trust that he will hurt the "other" group more, be it women, minorities, immigrants, whatever. It's exactly the democratic support to the "others" that they despise and won't accept, ever.
Huh? It seems like the Dems are obsessed with identity politics more so. I say this as someone who voted Biden and Dem down the line in NYC. Its not about identify, its about whether they will have a job, be able to pay their mortgage, their kids have a future.
@Anonymous Acknowledging that racism, homophobia, sexism etc exist and need to be addressed isn't being "obsessed" with identity politics, though. It's just straight up facts.
Those who are invested in denying the existence of these things, along with denying medical science, climate science and god knows what else, do seem to really make it a key plank of their identity. They will cling to their right to be resentful and prejudiced to their dying breath.
At least some of that 48% don't have a clear understanding of Trump's policies and their consequences, because he tells blatant lies and certain media outlets propagate them. As @AnonymousQ said above, it's more about identity. Hatred of the other and distrust of perceived "elites", including medical and scientific professionals.
I know many Trump voters, in NYC and outside the city. They all were very proud of Trump's performance in the 3rd debate, which you may want to re-watch (not partisan news clips) to understand a point of view. None of them like him as a person. But they believe he has policies that make sense. They don't think police should be disbanded/defunded/is racist, they are against illegal immigration (but not legal immigration), they think China is eating the US lunch, think Democrats have run a multi-year Russian hoax campaign, point to good policy he has put in place that does not get too much press unless you know to look for it, and do not believe Trump is a racist (one of them dared me to find racist comments that Trump has made, and I surprisingly couldn't do it .. it does turn out a lot of his comments are taking out of context by the media when you read the full transcript.. and certain policy he has put in place was put in place by prior administrations). Some also feel strongly on abortion and will vote Republican no matter who. Now that I think about it, Racism came up a lot, they don't think police have bias, Trump is a racist or that systemic racism even exists. Conversely, they think Biden is senile (but Trump is also old?), his family is at least equally corrupt, he is a career politician without leadership. Some view the Democrats as having no policy except raising taxes with unclear outcomes to how those revenues get spent and swinging too far to the extreme to have any sustainable policy. They dislike Kamala's track record (although what exactly I am not sure). I think if Democrats put up a better / more moderate candidate, some of these would have voted for him/her. All-in, they know Trump is abhorrent, but are OK with that for - in their eyes - the better policy.
These are not my views. I would never post my political views on the Internet.
"Racism came up a lot... they don't think systemic racism even exists."
Woop, there it is.
As AnonymousQ said above, "It's exactly the democratic support to the "others" that they despise and won't accept, ever."
They can frame it in waffly language about watching debates all they like, but if they cannot accept the base fact that systemic racism is a thing that exists, then no, they are probably never going to vote for a Democrat.
@AnonymousQ Right- how much more moderate of a candidate could we have had? (I say this as a moderate Democrat who supported Biden from the start because of his moderate views.)
Its both IMO. I think a lot of people hold their nose and vote for Trump because they like his fiscal policies, how he handles internationally, etc. even though they know he is a jerk with zero empathy. With Biden, he is not "exciting" which is probably good, we have had enough excitement the last 4 years. But behind Biden is the Dem party that is scaring people away with some of the more left positions, the loud voices like AOC, and fear of socialism & govt control in their lives. And then there is a decent # that love Trump because he speaks to the things that worry them, like he did in 2016. The media and campaign was much better than 2016 and less in a "bubble", but I guess not enough. Just saw a times article about NYS but it resonates - "Democrats may have failed to outline a platform that appealed to moderate voters beyond a rejection of Mr. Trump, said Bruce Gyory, a Democratic strategist.
“You’ve got to be able to put a purposeful agenda that resonates with voters in the center,” he said.
I agree but neither side recognizes moderate views within their parties. Both sides are so polarizing.
@MidtownMom I agree with you, but the Democrats should have tried much harder to appeal to the center voters.
@Anon I totally agree with you.
I think it's about identity more than policies. They have invested in this choice. They identify with it. It would take a lot of self-insight to admit this mistake. And it's a lot about emotions. They don't necessarily expect that Trump will help their own livelihoods. But they do trust that he will hurt the "other" group more, be it women, minorities, immigrants, whatever. It's exactly the democratic support to the "others" that they despise and won't accept, ever.
Huh? It seems like the Dems are obsessed with identity politics more so. I say this as someone who voted Biden and Dem down the line in NYC. Its not about identify, its about whether they will have a job, be able to pay their mortgage, their kids have a future.
@Anonymous Acknowledging that racism, homophobia, sexism etc exist and need to be addressed isn't being "obsessed" with identity politics, though. It's just straight up facts.
Those who are invested in denying the existence of these things, along with denying medical science, climate science and god knows what else, do seem to really make it a key plank of their identity. They will cling to their right to be resentful and prejudiced to their dying breath.
@Anonymous Uh . . . Make America Great "Again"
At least some of that 48% don't have a clear understanding of Trump's policies and their consequences, because he tells blatant lies and certain media outlets propagate them. As @AnonymousQ said above, it's more about identity. Hatred of the other and distrust of perceived "elites", including medical and scientific professionals.
Biden will win by at least 4 million in the popular vote. I take comfort in that there are more rational thinking Americans than wacko haters.
I know many Trump voters, in NYC and outside the city. They all were very proud of Trump's performance in the 3rd debate, which you may want to re-watch (not partisan news clips) to understand a point of view. None of them like him as a person. But they believe he has policies that make sense. They don't think police should be disbanded/defunded/is racist, they are against illegal immigration (but not legal immigration), they think China is eating the US lunch, think Democrats have run a multi-year Russian hoax campaign, point to good policy he has put in place that does not get too much press unless you know to look for it, and do not believe Trump is a racist (one of them dared me to find racist comments that Trump has made, and I surprisingly couldn't do it .. it does turn out a lot of his comments are taking out of context by the media when you read the full transcript.. and certain policy he has put in place was put in place by prior administrations). Some also feel strongly on abortion and will vote Republican no matter who. Now that I think about it, Racism came up a lot, they don't think police have bias, Trump is a racist or that systemic racism even exists. Conversely, they think Biden is senile (but Trump is also old?), his family is at least equally corrupt, he is a career politician without leadership. Some view the Democrats as having no policy except raising taxes with unclear outcomes to how those revenues get spent and swinging too far to the extreme to have any sustainable policy. They dislike Kamala's track record (although what exactly I am not sure). I think if Democrats put up a better / more moderate candidate, some of these would have voted for him/her. All-in, they know Trump is abhorrent, but are OK with that for - in their eyes - the better policy. These are not my views. I would never post my political views on the Internet.
"Racism came up a lot... they don't think systemic racism even exists."
Woop, there it is.
As AnonymousQ said above, "It's exactly the democratic support to the "others" that they despise and won't accept, ever."
They can frame it in waffly language about watching debates all they like, but if they cannot accept the base fact that systemic racism is a thing that exists, then no, they are probably never going to vote for a Democrat.
"More moderate" than Biden/Harris? I.e. a Republican?
@AnonymousQ Right- how much more moderate of a candidate could we have had? (I say this as a moderate Democrat who supported Biden from the start because of his moderate views.)
Racism. People will bend and twist it forever and ever to make themselves feel better about themselves, but it was sheer racism.